Do you want the President to fail?

Submitted by Tim Forsthoff on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 11:34am

Do you want president Obama to fail? Rush Limbaugh, a conservative radio host, made news recently saying he want President Obama to fail. It got me doing some thinking. Do I want the President to fail? I'll answer the question with two responses. I want America to succeed not fail. I'm patriotic to the core. I love America, and I want to see it righteous, peaceful and prosperous. Do I want the President to succeed or fail? Well, I want him to succeed if it means America is peaceful and prosperous. I want him to succeed if it means America is righteous in God's sight. I want the President to fail if his policies and decisions lead America away from God, from peace, and from prosperity. What do you think? Is it wrong to be politically opposed to a candidate if you think his or her policies are bad? Is it wrong to want them (their policies) to fail? Should you wish the success of any political figure regardless of their beliefs and policies?

Godly Opposition with Fervent Prayer

Submitted by Cwm on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 12:47pm.

I pray that the president would and will succeed in making America strong again, from the ground up. I pray that God would keep his feet to the fire, and acomplish His(Gods) will and purposes. We do not live under a theocracy or a theistic society, but as president of the United States, he has the responsibility and moral obligation to point this country in the right direction, with the right heart, and right motive as this country was birthed out of. Then the people of God will undergird him with a righteous prayer and righteous action and voice to carry out the will of God in this land. Every policy, law, and plan that exalts itself above or against God, I pray will Fail and not come into fruition.

Hello CWM, I think everyone

Submitted by Tim Forsthoff on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 2:41pm.

Hello CWM,
I think everyone wants the president to succeed if it means moving the nation forward in a positive and godly way. As Christians we have a different perspective than those who do not have faith. We judge our candidate according to the values of the Word not the World. Let us always respect and pray for our president and political leaders.

All things are possible

Submitted by Cwm on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 3:13pm.

I agree 100% pray first, pray often, and pray that God will change his heart in the areas that go against Him. As we know all things are possible with God, and it is God who changes the hearts of people. It is in Gods hand. My favorite scripture to meditate on during the election was Isaiah 46:10, and that is where I will place my confidence as I pray.

Pray for God's will or Pray for Failure

Submitted by Terrence Barr on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 10:06am.

Pastor Tim,
I appreciate this discussion. A friend and I from church was discussing this on Facebook. I Timothy 2 exhorts us to pray for those in authority. We clearly know through God's Word what we should value. It should shape our "World View". With that said, there is so much I do not agree with or like concerning the policies of the current administration. So I pray according to I Timothy 2 for our leaders. The question I have is since I know that the President is stating he will sign bills that are contrary to the heart and Word of God, should my prayers be prayers of his failure. Doctrinally, should we as christian pray for authority to fail??? Personally, I think not. I think we should pray for God's will to be done, to change the President's heart if that's needed. The thing is, we really don't know what God's will is? He is in control. In Is. 54:16, God said he "created the waster to destroy". The point being, in our finite understanding, we can not fully comprehend the plan of God. So I think it best to pray for God's will to done, and if it's God's will, to change the heart of the President to conform to what we KNOW God's word says. What do you think?

Hey Terrance, Here are some

Submitted by Tim Forsthoff on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 10:46am.

Hey Terrance,
Here are some thoughts on the matter.

When you pray for your elected leaders, you pray for their salvation and for God's guidance in their life. I don't think you pray for their failure.

I think it is right for you to pray for God to direct them to godly decisions.

I think it is right for you to pray for God to change their mind on certain matters, or to change their policies, so that they would conform to the values of Scripture.

I think it is right for you to pray for their removal if they are leading the country away from God. I ask God to set into office and remove from office the leaders that are after or against His heart.

I think you must pray with respect in your heart at all times towards elected officials. We don't want to speak evil of authorities.

I think when we pray we must be aware of God's providence and sovereignty. God put or allowed President Obama into office. Why? I don't have all the answers to that question. I yield with humility to God. Since there is an understanding that God put him into office, it is important that we tread lightly when passing judgement.

These are some of my thoughts on the matter. I hope they help. God bless, Pastor Tim

Obama; Pray for the man's failure....

Submitted by Jeff Davis on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 11:03am.

Without quoting any scripture to prove my point, I would have to say this is easy; pray for Obama's failure but that God might be glorified through his failure. After all; if we pray for Obama's success then aren't we praying for evil to succeed? His plans are clearly not of God, I don't think anyone with any "real" grip on the Christian walk and teachings could deny that. I realize that this sounds negative but I really think its just that cut and dry..I believe it's possible for God to be glorified (and achieve his will) through Obama's failure. Personally I have seen this in my own life; it took me personally failing in my own life's endeavors before I turned to God. The end result is that God now recieves the glory for the whole thing! Praise God! I had to fail first and I just know someone was praying for me to fail to! LOL!

Let me add a bit more...

Submitted by Jeff Davis on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 11:10am.

I forgot to add that I think we can still be respectful and pray for failure...I do not think that we should be mad mouthing our president in any way :)

Strategic Goals, Objectives and Methods

Submitted by Micah Webner on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 12:01pm.

Jeff,

I got dragged into some strategic planning stuff last year at work. One of my take-aways from that was the need to not consider methods when defining goals and objectives. That is, when defining goals, we need to resist the temptation to say, "we need to do X so that Z will happen." We merely define a desire for Z to happen. That defines the goal. Next, you build objectives as ways to measure if a goal has been reached. Again, this can't say, "we need to do X to cause Y so that we've achieved Z." It simply has to say that Y is one of the ways we can demonstrate Z.

Very abstract, I know. Bear with me...

Our goal in this case is simple: We, as Christians, want God to be glorified. More specifically, we want to see Him glorified in our nation. One of the ways we can see this happen is for our nation's leaders to honor God in all that they do. That doesn't mean we should pray, "God, please do X so that our leaders will honor You so that You will be glorified." Not only is it presumptuous, because we're using prayer to tell God how he should do things, but it's really not the correct order for thinking strategically. It's probably foolish to assume that this is the only way a Godly change of direction could happen.

I believe the better approach is to simply pray that He touch the hearts of our leaders to turn them to Him, so that He may be glorified. I don't think it's up to us to recommend methods to Him.

If anything, we should ask Him how we can better be salt and light in the world around us, which may in turn encourage others to turn to Him. This could, in the long run, have a far greater effect than any temporary setback caused by failed government policy.

Micah

True that, however.....

Submitted by Jeff Davis on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 12:53pm.

"I believe the better approach is to simply pray that He touch the hearts of our leaders to turn them to Him...."
True that... I am with you on this Micah however, for God to touch Obama's heart and get him to turn to him it would mean Obama having to fail... so, if we pray for God to touch Obama's heart then we'd really be praying (even if we're not directly asking this) for God to let him fail...it's not so much that I feel that we as Christians are reccomend something but rather that God's will be done in the earth and in every case I've seen that means eradicating evil and praying for the the failure of it..
~Jeff

Brian Zahnd

Submitted by Ryan Garrison on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 2:48pm.

I recently listened to a podcast of Brian Zahnd (Pastor of Word of Life Church in St. Joseph, Missouri) called "Surprised by Joy". Long story short, in this message he mentioned certain things that he was surprised by. One of these was that Jesus is indifferent towards politics. He compared Jesus' indifference to the world's politics to our indifference towards Brazilian politics. For example...I don't believe that the common American man is greatly concerned with the everyday proceedings of the Brazilian government. Only in the way that it interacts with the American government...and I would even suggest that the concern over that is even minimal. Anyways God's kingdom is going to come in his timing and everything is going to be done to his will so overall God's passion is directed towards his own government and not deeply towards America's. This stream of blog posts just kind of reminded me of this message. I posted this as a sort of food for thought.

P.S. I am however not suggesting (and I don't believe that Pastor Brian Zahnd was either) that God has an indifference to abortion and homosexuality but rather that in the end God's Kingdom is going to come whether our Obama sides with the previously mentioned beliefs or not.

Hello Ryan, It is true that

Submitted by Tim Forsthoff on Mon, 02/02/2009 - 2:16pm.

Hello Ryan,
It is true that when Jesus was on the earth, He did not seem to express much interest in politics. I think the Lord avoided the issue of politics, because it was not His reason for coming. He came to die. He came to establish a kingdom in the heart of man. He did not come to address political issues but issues of the heart. Having said that, it is obvious in reading all of Scripture that God is interested in politics. He sets up Kings and removes Kings. He establishes authority. The Old Testament prophetic books have major sections dealing with Israel and the nations of the world. God had and has a keen eye upon the kingdoms of the world. What do you think?

I pray for a 'real' change

Submitted by Vicki Yurick on Thu, 02/12/2009 - 12:02pm.

“ … and at his appointed season he brought his word to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,” Titus 1:3 NIV

God has been speaking to me from this passage on several different levels. First as a word of encouragement regarding promises He has given me. It has been a word He has used to encourage me to hold on in faith and to wait, as there is an ‘appointed time’ for His promises to manifest and come to pass.
As I have meditated on it further though, it has provided me insight about praying and believing for those who may appear to be in opposition to God’s will, in our lives and circumstances, and in the world in general.
I’ve been reminded that Paul was not always Paul. That he was once Saul, and in a moment via a divine encounter, he was changed forever. He was a persecutor of God’s people and moved in opposition to their ministries and their interpretation of what God’s plans and purposes were.
I’m sure there were many of that time and place who thought him a hopeless case, beyond change and an enemy. Some most probably hated him. There is no doubt that he was an enemy at that time, but I wonder if there were those who were praying for him - believing for God to move in his heart and for him to be changed? For those who perhaps were, what a stunning answer to prayer his conversion must have been!
It encourages to me to believe for what seems to be the impossible. To believe that God can stir a man’s heart and awaken him to the truth and to change his mind, ideology, and the course of his life forever! What a different legacy Paul ultimately had, than what would have been forecasted based on who he was! To be blind like Saul and then see so clearly … couldn’t this be true for anyone?
I do not want Obama to fail; I want him changed for God’s service and glory forever. I pray that his eyes and heart are opened to the truth and that when they are; that he has the courage to stand for what is true and right.
I agree often with Rush’s commentary. The spirit in his delivery however, and even of what is sometimes true, is not always helpful or healthy. Rush stirs up so much discord, anger, frustration, and other negative responses in his audience, that I find myself praying that he will be changed too :).

Good response

Submitted by Tim Forsthoff on Thu, 02/12/2009 - 3:26pm.

Hey Vicki,
That was a great response to the question. Thank you for your input. I, too, want President Obama to be changed by the power of God. I certainly don't agree with all of his policies. Some of them I think will bring harm to America. I do want these policies to fail. Since I love my country and respect my president, I want both to have great success in honoring God, turning to God, and following God. God bless, Pastor Tim

That is a cool insight!

Submitted by Micah Webner on Sat, 02/14/2009 - 11:36pm.

Wow, Vicki! What a cool insight. I never would have thought about the fact that people might have had a burden for Saul (Paul) while he was persecuting Christians. Not just a prayer that God would protect them from him, but a real prayer that God would touch, change and use him, just like any lost person we find ourselves praying for today.

This one is getting filed away in the little storage place in my mind that's full of little glimpses of people in the Bible as actual people, and not just characters in a story.